Bram Cohen ([info]bramcohen) wrote,
@ 2007-08-23 17:27:00
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Mortgage Lending
With the current (apparent) crisis in the mortgage market in the united states, I'd like to point out a central fact of that system which is completely berserk:

Credit scores are the primary mechanism for determining creditworthiness for getting a mortgage.

This is more than a little bit nuts. Credit scores are designed to tell how much returns a credit card lender can get by giving someone a line of credit. Mortgage default risk is something else entirely. A person who has a huge rotating debt on their credit card and pays off the minimum every month is a great credit card risk because they'll have payed off several times what they were loaned in the first place by the time they go under, but a terrible mortgage risk because they're likely to go under, while a person who never has any rotating debt is a terrible credit card risk because they never rack up any interest but a great mortgage risk because they're unlikely to get into financial distress.

Why then, are credit scores used? First I have to explain what kind of risk mortgage lenders are taking on. Historically, mortgages were so absurdly overcollateralized that the risk of default isn't that the money doesn't get paid back, but that it gets paid back too early, requiring that some new sucker be found to loan the money to to get the expected returns. It's obviously a bit of a stretch to call this 'risk', but that's the way things have been.

So about using credit scores - since there's very little risk being taken on, mostly it's about who can be beat up. Whatever sociopolitically justifiable games banks can play to increase interest rates they do, and as it happens people with lower credit scores are viewed as Bad People and collusion against them is a lot simpler.

What, then, would be a reasonable thing to do? Obviously drop credit scores, but replace it with what? Well, the current situation can tell us a lot. What's happened recently is that housing prices have actually fallen, so a number of mortgages are underwater, so there's a risk not only of the money being paid back early, but of it not being paid back at all. The way to gauge risk of this is something which is already used in mortgage assessment, but not heavily enough, which is percentage down. By definition, if a houses's value drops by ten percent then any mortgage with less than ten percent down will be underwater, but mortgages with more than that will still be just fine. The current mortgage mess is in part difficult to unwind because when mortgages got packaged up and resold they were clumped by credit rating and not percentage down, so the effects of real estate prices going down on them are quite difficult to infer.

As for aftershocks, I don't think this is such a big deal. The people holding on to mortgages right now are mostly hedge funds, which by definition only have accredited investors as shareholders, and accredited investors by definition have enough money that they can afford to suck it up if their investments go bad. Hopefully that's what will happen.

In the future, I think mortgages will continue to be much as they have been right before this crisis. This historical business of mortgages only coming in one risk class (damn near risk-free) and getting returns as if they were taking on real risk was a bad thing, and I anticipate that if there isn't any bailout this time then the mortgage industry will get together and start handing out interest rates which actually make sense - very high rates for anything interest-only, and rates only a hair above fed funds for anything with 50% down, regardless of the borrower's credit-worthiness.



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[info]misterajc
2007-08-24 02:34 am UTC (link)
What is your source for the statement that most mortgage backed securities are held by hedge funds? I was under the impression that a lot are also held by banks and insurance companies.

It's not always easy to get at the collateral in a mortgage. It takes a long time to foreclose on and sell a property, and the transaction costs are high, so even an apparently well collateralized mortgage may not be as risk free as it appears.

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[info]bramcohen
2007-08-24 04:48 am UTC (link)
My sources are financial industry people - take it with a grain of salt, although there aren't reasonable public figures about such things. It certainly is the case that much of the mortgage boom was funded by repackaging and reselling of mortgages, and that mostly went to hedge funds.

The bad foreclosure thing is very weird. I cannot fathom why banks don't stage their houses and list them on MLS like any sane person selling a house, even with a single one-shot auction, would do.

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[info]lupoleboucher
2007-08-24 03:33 am UTC (link)
THere's nothing wrong with the way mortgages are given out. The exact same ARM based system works just fine in ANZAC countries, and has for decades. What is wrong is the way people took toxic waste junk bonds and successively repackaged them as BBB+ level bonds, based on what is essentially bullshit math.

Most people don't know what's going on in the MBS market, other than the fact that it is bad. What's really happened is a lot of banks (not hedge funds) bottom lines are based on MBS. Presently, nobody knows how to value MBS properly, and there is no liquid market for them. Since banks value is partially based on MBS, and nobody knows how to value MBS (there is no liquid market in MBS to set a price, like there is with equities), so banks stopped loaning each other money, in case there is a run or explosion. So the government stepped in, and issued money to people who needed it.

It's a liquidity issue, not a mortgage issue. Hedge funds will actually very likely be part of the solution, since they're best positioned to value and make markets in MBS.

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[info]bramcohen
2007-08-24 04:50 am UTC (link)
Current fed actions seem to imply that they think it's a liquidity issue, which may very well be the case. Likely some investors will have to suck it up, but there's no need for a bailout here - the economy as a whole will keep on churning, regardless of what happens in that market. The big problem is making sure that we don't go into a period where nobody can buy or refi.

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[info]lupoleboucher
2007-08-24 05:53 am UTC (link)
"The big problem is making sure that we don't go into a period where nobody can buy or refi."

Har, spoken like a true homeowner!
If credit dries up that much, the last thing in the world you'll need to worry about is getting a mortgage; the financial world will have effectively ended. There's all kinds of crazy magic happening in the background that make things like mortgages for everybody, or funding for bittorrent possible. If your mortgage dries up (which means, effectively or actually, very high interest rates), that means a lot of other shit will stop working.

FYI, one of the problems with valuing bonds based on mortgages is the customer's credit rating never makes it into the bond valuation. Nuts, but true. Once people notice this, a lot of the problems will go away. If you're in a speculating mood, you can buy some of these bonds (which are pretty reasonable) for something like 1/10 of their real price.

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[info]bramcohen
2007-08-24 07:55 pm UTC (link)
Well, the mortgage after-market was illiquid as of a few days ago, so it really is possible for things in mortgages to stop moving for a while without everything else coming to a complete halt.

If mortgages were to stay illiquid for months, that would of course be indicative/a cause of all kinds of other far worse things.

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[info]mega
2007-08-24 07:56 am UTC (link)
I hate the idea behind credit scores. Everyone is happy to run credit checks for next to no reason to make sure there is no history of bad debt. The crazy thing I hated abou the whole vicious cycle is that you need to get into some kind of debt in order to GET a credit score. I was always someone who would pay with cash and dreaded the idea of borrowing anything or run into any kind of debt...boy-oh-boy am I suffering from it now with how little I can get help with the bigger things in life (car loans, housing mortgage, decent interest on bank loans, acceptance to rent a house due to having not bad credit, but NO credit!)

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[info]bramcohen
2007-08-24 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I had quite a conversation with a rental place once where they were saying that they couldn't rent to me because I didn't have good enough credit, and I was suggesting that I could prepay the entire lease, and they were saying that I didn't have good enough credit. WTF?

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It's as if our society promotes debt
[info]mbac
2007-08-28 01:28 am UTC (link)
It took me a long time to figure out exactly what you just said about credit scores.

I used to wonder long and hard about why my credit score was so low.

By low I mean not the perfect highest score. I have, in the last 10 years, dipped into credit lines both great and small up to $30,000. I have not a single negative spot on my record and have never missed a single payment. Not on my utility bills, parking tickets, credit cards, etc. I've had a half dozen credit cards. I've had none. I've had car loans, appliance loans, etc. I think I overdrew my checking account once in 2003 which was due to a banking error. It's the best case scenario but I still, from time to time, find myself kept off some rides because my score's not yay high.

That's when it finally dawned on me. Your credit score doesn't represent how RISKY you are. It indicates how much MONEY you're going to make a lender.

Wear your suboptimal credit score like a badge of pride.

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Re: It's as if our society promotes debt
[info]promocomo
2007-12-18 04:20 am UTC (link)
Well it's quite true that your credit score does not reflect how risky a bet your would be to a lender, for example, if you never use credit you would have a low score, but that doesn't mean your a poor risk. I do not agree however that your score indicates how much you will make a lender, I more of the opinion that the current system has flaws for sure and YES our society does promote debt..

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Re: It's as if our society promotes debt
[info]jurex87
2008-05-21 05:59 am UTC (link)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I enjoyed reading your post.

- jurex
Bad Credit Loans

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No need to get into debt!
[info]creditscore8
2008-07-15 01:55 pm UTC (link)
You don't have to get into debt to get a credit score. The score is based on your credit report which is simply a rundown of your payment history, listing your accounts, balances and your payment behavior for each.

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Re: No need to get into debt!
[info]personalloans_1
2008-08-19 09:19 pm UTC (link)
Personal Loans provide a great service for todays recession burdened citezens however we both as consumers and lenders must promote and practice responsible spending and lending or the industry will soon see a rapid decline.

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[info]megadog
2007-08-24 09:28 am UTC (link)
There was a period here in the UK [early-1980s] when there was a property-crash and a lot of people had 'negative equity' - owing more on their house than the property was worth.

Anyone taking out a mortgage valued at more than something like 75% of the price of the property is generally required to also take out 'mortgage indemnity insurance' which is supposed to cover the gap if you can't keep up the payments and the mortgageco forecloses, but the equity in the property doesn't cover the outstanding loan.

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[info]bluedaisy
2007-08-28 07:08 pm UTC (link)
The problem is with the people who bought when the property was valued rather higher than it is now. If you bought in the housing bubble, and put 20% down (conventional wisdom for a "safe" mortgage) but your house's value has dropped by 30% or more, you may still have negative equity...

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The real credit scores in question.
[info]mfhughes
2007-08-28 03:44 am UTC (link)
The real credit scores in question here are not the consumer scores, but the bond issuers' scores. The firms who issue these commercial credit ratings supposedly have inside access to individual and aggregate loan ratings, and act in an objective manner in the service of the market at large.

Who issued good commercial credit scores to shady fixed securities? Who owns these firms? Whose interests were being protected? Whose interests were being sold out? Whose interests were in conflict?

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How To Read A Credit Report
[info]stevewar
2008-04-17 11:16 pm UTC (link)
I think one aspect of your FICO score that is useful in determining risk is the debt to income ratio. I don't think you can discount that debt to income ratios have a clear effect on the risk of default.

I don't think dropping credit scores is the answer. I think people just need to learn to be responsible with their fiances and learn how to use credit wisely. The bottom line is that if you can't afford to pay your bills, or are only able to pay minimums on your credit cards, you shouldn't be buying a big screen TV them. Many Americans feel over priveledged and no longer take any responsibility for their actions, and misuse of credit is a perfect example.

That said, most people haven't a clue how to manage their credit and achieve a high fico score. That said, here's a link to the first article in a series of blog posts entitled "Mastering Fico"
http://topinternetguides.com/2008/04/16/how-to-read-a-credit-report/


Mastering Fico explains everything you need to know in order to manage your credit. This article, How To Read a Credit Report, is the first step in managing your credit an achieving an excellent FICO score.

I hope the information in this guide proves valuable for your readers.

-Steve

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[info]sbaloans
2008-05-22 08:47 am UTC (link)
great post! hope to read from you then

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[info]gabrielle_paula
2008-06-27 08:18 am UTC (link)
I always pay my bills on time in order to prevent bad credit and to maintain a good credit score.

Gabby
Business Credit Card

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Home equity
[info]homeequity
2008-07-04 05:56 pm UTC (link)
Fortunately in the uk mortgage lenders are pretty understanding, and some even allow short breaks without penalties from mortgage repayments.

Penalties are normally so high and affect your credit score/rating in a bad way

I believe that all banks should be that way and give all home owners regular breaks as they are with the mortgage provider for many many years

My speciality is in teaching people for free about how to obtain low rate loans using the equity of your home

Have a look and see if any of it is helpful :)home equity loans allow you to generate money perhaps for projects you feel you need to do around your house or in your life.

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Re: Home equity
[info]lauren_1424
2008-07-08 04:59 pm UTC (link)
you know its funny, i hear about all these other countries other than US not having any of these home problems that we are having. So many people are having trouble paying their mortgage because they got ARMS because that was all they could get, now foreclosures are sky high because people get behind on mortgage payments, then there is not many options after that.

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[info]mortgagereverse
2008-07-10 12:31 am UTC (link)
One new program that people need to be aware of is the reverse mortgage. But they need to also know about reverse mortgage disadvantages

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Credit Scores are Unfair and Goverment Regulation of Mortgages and No Fax Payday Loans will ...
[info]nofaxpayday
2008-08-08 10:35 pm UTC (link)
It is very difficult to determine who is qualified for a home loan. Credit ratings are not an accurate prediction of ability to pay. There are millions of people with inaccurate information posted by preditory collection practices and just plain old errors.

To much regulation will me the poor and lower middle class will never have a chance to own a home. The pressure of a mortgage has straightened up many people who would otherwise continue to have been less than credit worthy.

In todays world you can not even achieve an excellant credit rating without a mortgage loan on your credit report.

Mortgage loans are comming under the same scrutiny that No Fax Payday Loans have been under for years. Regulation is not the answer but education is.


We have more information on the responsible use of money on our blog: http://personalmoneystore.com

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No Fax Payday Loans
[info]no_fax_payday
2008-08-28 05:55 am UTC (link)
Sometimes there are instances that can ruin your payday loan payments. You may consider asking for the loan with the shortest term, for as if you keep it for a longer time, the fee will also increase automatically. That is why it is advisable to seek these loans only when you are in dire need of cash and borrow the minimum possible requirement and not borrow any extra money for “just-in-case” times. Obviously, you wouldn’t like paying interest for money that was lying idly in your account. Payday quick loans are meant for a purpose and should be handled likewise. In such ways, it will be a lot easier to pay your debts. http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/

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No Fax Payday Loans
[info]cashadvanceloan
2008-08-30 06:20 am UTC (link)
Payday loans are becoming quite popular in the business and industry sector, because of financial gaps and abrupt emergencies. Even professionals are considering payday loans as their last resort. Companies who are in need of quick financial assistance turn to payday loans to assist them at their expenses. While others are eager to get a payday loans, some are having second thoughts. Why? High percentage fee, but getting a payday loans need not be expensive. Here are some tips on how to save your self from the paying of overwhelming fees, visit the site at http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/ and gain more information pertaining to no fax payday loans.

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No Fax Payday Loans
[info]cashadvanceloan
2008-08-30 06:23 am UTC (link)
You may be able to find online source that specializing in handling those considered a bad credit risk. The most important things to remember, you must face your money problem and to tackle them before bankruptcy becomes your only option. In this case it is very good to have an adviser that can recommend you a good payday loan and can adequate evaluate whether it is advantageous or disadvantageous one, http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/ gives the information on how to use our money wisely without being situated into a cycle of debt.

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No Fax Payday Loans
[info]cashadvanceloan
2008-09-01 04:47 am UTC (link)
The industries of payday loan companies are fast growing today. Because of financial problem some people would run to a payday loan company but in the end if they already have piles of payday loan to pay they end up crying and some would accuse that the payday company they have loaned of is tricking them. With this problem we cannot say that the consumer is innocent and the payday loan company is guilty. But if you don’t want to have doubts with the payday loan company you’re loaning of visit this site: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/. The articles there talks about how some big payday loan companies deceive their consumers.

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Payday Loan Advocate for Mortgage Lending
[info]cashadvanceloan
2008-09-16 09:27 am UTC (link)
Economy today was totally undergoes on different disastrous situation, the reason why people find themselves difficult to adjust in a way of living that the world offer today. Higher unemployment, more home foreclosures, skyrocketing oil prices, obscene gas prices are just an example of this. It is advisable for all of us to budget our money with an appropriate financial planning.


Post Courtesy of Personal Money Store
Professional Blogging Team
Feed Back: 1-866-641-3406
Home: http://personalmoneystore.com/NoFaxPaydayLoans.html
Blog: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/

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Payday Loan Advocate
[info]cashadvanceloan
2008-10-02 09:15 am UTC (link)
With our economy going into a slump, why is it that political figures are destroying valid financial options? Payday loans are an essential part of the U.S. financial system, providing loans to those who have bad or no credit that need the money fast. Yet, for one reason or another, legislators are targeting this financial system. Some states, such as Georgia and North Carolina, have even banned the industry all together! The politics behind it is simple; banks are lobbying the legislators to try and destroy their oncoming competition, and the legislators are falling for it. Even taking out the fact that banks are trying to take away your financial choices and freedoms so they can have a monopoly on loans, the corruption of our politics is simply wrong. Our opinions must be heard, and our freedom of choice, financial or not, should not be dampened on the soul fact on one person's financial gain.

Post Courtesy of Personal Money Store
Payday Loans
Professional Blogging Team
Feed Back: 1-866-641-3406

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[info]gordwick
2008-10-08 05:28 pm UTC (link)
That makes it clear for me, and now that I think about things shouldn't be complicated at all because we should all know these things at the lending moment and act realistic. I always keep a mortgage calculator so I can have an accurate view of my mortgage status. This helps me better organize my finances.

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[info]studentcredit
2008-11-04 08:21 am UTC (link)
This mortgage/real estate problem were are facing now is due to recession or the down of US economy. Even for college students, budgeting is necessary. That's why, credit cards for students take a big part in helping their finances especially for emergency purposes. So, vote wisely! :)

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What?
[info]slaurvick
2008-12-08 12:55 am UTC (link)
http://capstarrealtygroup.com concludes that credit scores are not only viable instruments for gauging the intent of potential borrowers, but that the fact they were ignored is one component of the real estate morass we find ourselves in currently...

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