Bram Cohen ([info]bramcohen) wrote,
@ 2008-03-02 20:38:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Cooking and Humidity
I've been thinking about humidity in food preparation recently. It seems like, after temperature, humidity levels are the most important thing in cooking, with 'soggy' and 'dry' being failure modes just below 'raw' and 'burnt' in their prominence.

Some systemic humidity problems seem like they should have technical solutions. The first is freezer burn. Cold air holds onto less humidity than warm air, so every time you open your freezer some warm air holding on to more humidity than the air previously in the freezer is let in. That air is then cooled off, forcing it to let go of moisture, which then crystallizes on your food, and voila, freezer burn. When you wrap food in plastic you're limiting the amount of warm air its ever exposed to, thus hopefully reducing the amount of freezer burn to the amount of moisture that was trapped in the plastic initially. Wrapping in plastic works fairly well, but it would be nice to have a freezer which regulated moisture levels, to eliminate the need for plastic and so that foods which themselves let go of or took on moisture at different temperature levels wouldn't get damaged. I'm not sure what sort of mechanism would be good for regulating moisture in a freezer though, especially with the requirement that the thermal efficiency should be damaged as little as possible.

The second big moisture issue is in cooking. When you bake food in an oven, the air gets warmed up, causing it to be able to absorb more moisture, thus drying out your food. Adding more moisture to the air in the oven can fix that problem. It should be possible to make an oven which does this automatically using a mechanism similar to the one which puts oil in your car engine, but a simpler approach is to calculate how much water will be needed, preheat the oven to the desired cooking temperature, then add the right amount of water in a pot, and when the pot starts to boil add the food. If anyone cares to point out how to calculate the appropriate amount of water for a given size oven and cooking temperature I'd appreciate it (yeah, I know, this is basic high school physics, but it's easier to ask the lazyweb). I'd also appreciate it if anybody can point out a fish recipe on the web of the form 'season to taste, then cook at X degrees for Y minutes'. Online recipes seem to really not like being simple. Fish seems like the most obvious dish to try, because it's notorious for drying out easily. Suggestions of particularly fickle fish would be appreciated as well.

Update: I was basically wrong about freezer burn. The phenomenon I described is the cause of frost build-up in old fashioned freezers, but modern freezers which auto-defrost do so by drying out the air, and the dryness is what causes freezer burn. See comments for some discussion and links.



(Post a new comment)


[info]chouyu_31
2008-03-03 06:44 am UTC (link)
In the oven, it's not so much that the air is dry and sucking the moisture out of the food as much as the moisture is boiled out of the food itself (212 degrees f to boil water, most items are in 300+ degree ovens). To prevent such issues in certain foods (turkey, fish, ...), it is not uncommon to wrap or cover the foods to keep the moisture in or on the food (baking bags, foil, ...).

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chouyu_31
2008-10-09 03:46 pm UTC (link)
The above two comments are from spam blogs.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]chouyu_31
2008-10-17 04:06 am UTC (link)
As well as the one below.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]bramcohen
2008-10-19 10:31 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I know, I'm deleting them. Damn spammers.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]chouyu_31
2008-10-19 05:30 pm UTC (link)
I found that by turning captchas on for people you aren't friends with to work fairly well.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]cratermoon
2008-03-03 07:14 am UTC (link)
There are specially made ovens for bread, french bread in particular, that have steam injectors. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-steam-oven.htm

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bramcohen
2008-03-03 02:27 pm UTC (link)
I think those are ovens which cook primarily with heated steam, hence the article's talk of a lack of browning. A normal radiant heat oven which also added extra moisture would have quite different cooking properties.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]lupoleboucher
2008-03-03 08:00 am UTC (link)
I think you're mistaking how freezer burn happens. Freezer burn happens because ice crystals in food evaporate into the dry air in your freezer, leaving you with nasty freeze-dried food. That's why meat (or even ice cream) keeps better if you wrap it very tightly; nowhere for the water vapor to escape to. It is particularly bad in modern frost-free freezers precisely because the air moisture level *is* regulated (and kept low). My old manual defroster kept meat a lot better. Too bad it was such a pain in the ass to defrost.

According to this here government thing on freezer burn, meat also oxidizes, which is something I never thought of before:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/freezerburn.html

It's pretty routine when baking or roasting for long periods of time to put a tray of water in your oven. I do it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]luserspaz
2008-03-04 03:24 pm UTC (link)
We got one of those Reynolds Handi-Vacs and it's worked quite well for keeping meat and other items in the freezer. I think the bags are a bit more expensive, but they're somewhat reusable.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]spikboll
2008-03-03 08:09 am UTC (link)
Being vegan I haven't tried this recipe out, but I really think it is the height of fish-cooking innovation: http://www.surrealgourmet.com/html/recipes/salmon.html

(Reply to this)


[info]rik
2008-03-03 12:34 pm UTC (link)
Does this count? It's grilled rather than baked, but the site was more what I wanted to point you at. This recipe happened to be on the front page.

(Reply to this)

Retaining moisture from Salmon to Mars Bars
[info]misterajc
2008-03-03 02:05 pm UTC (link)
Salmon will dry out easily if you don't cook it right. If I bake it, I usually wrap it in foil, sometimes adding bacon to the package for extra flavor and fat. You can also put it in a covered casserole dish with (say) white wine, lemon juice and dill. I usually do salmon steaks in foil and salmon fillet in a casserole dish just because of the shape.

Pork chops can also dry out if you try to bake them. Again the trick of wrapping them in foil is good. I usually add sour cream and mushrooms to the package.

Sometimes meat is fried on the outside before baking, or put into a hot oven at first and then cooked at a lower temperature. I believe this is to cook the outside of the meat and form a seal which retains moisture on the inside. Breading and battering can have a similar effect. This is why some recipes are more complicated than the "season and cook" method you propose. To retain moisture and flavor requires more complex processing than that.

The traditional British method of dealing with fish (dip in thick batter and deep fry) is good for retaining moisture, and also gives rigidity to fish that would otherwise flake apart when cooked. Believe it or not, deep fried Mars Bars are popular in some fish and chip shops, particularly in Scotland. It just would not work if you tried to bake a Mars Bar.

(Reply to this)


[info]steeltoe
2008-03-03 02:34 pm UTC (link)
I swould like to suggest you read "The Best Recipe" by Cook's Illustrated.

I has a lot of the science around cooking and baking in there, and it explains a lot of interesting phenomenon about what happens in your freezer and oven to food.

Most cooked food (outside of baked goods like breads) get dried out because it's over cooked or improperly rested. And most home freezers acutally stop blowing cold air on the food in the "defrost" cycle.

(Reply to this)


[info]agthorr
2008-03-03 03:54 pm UTC (link)
That air is then cooled off, forcing it to let go of moisture, which then crystallizes on your food, and voila, freezer burn.

Ice crystallizing on your food is no big deal. You can break it off, or in the worst case it will melt into water when you cook or thaw it.

Freezer burn is when the moisture that normally exists in the food sublimates, causing the food to become dry, shriveled, and bad-tasting. See the links for more details.

(Reply to this)

Steam Fish Recipe
[info]cobrabytez
2008-03-11 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Southern Chinese Style Steam Fish Recipe

Ingredient:
1 Steamer or 1 wok
1 steamer stand
1 whole fished gutted.
3-4 tbsp light soy sauce
2 tsp vegetable or olive oil
1 pinch black pepper
1 pinch of salt
1 whole green cut into 1 inch Julianne'd
10 thinly slices of ginger, julianne'd

Preparation:
Add water to the steamer or wok so it below submerging the steamer stand. Cover steam/wok and bring water to a boil. Meanwhile. Score fish to make sure it will cook evenly. Sprinkle salt & pepper on the both side of the fish. Sprinkle julianne'd ginger and green onion on top of the fish. Place fish on a steaming plate and put into the steamer/wok and cover. Steam for 15 minutes. When the fish is done, in another sauce pan bring pan to a high temperature. Add the oil and bring to a high temp (this should be a few minute). When you seem smoking coming out of the oil then it's more then read. CAUTION: Do not test oil temperature with your fingers! Pour the hot oil on top of the steaming fish, use caution when doing so because it might sizzle. Add soy sauce on top of that. Enjoy!

(Reply to this)


[info]tobylane.pip.verisignlabs.com
2008-10-24 02:16 pm UTC (link)
While I do prefer foil, your cooker idea is almost perfect, and better. My only worry is pressure, and the hot steam, which will escape somewhat quickly when you open it. My parents' glasses steam up pretty quickly as it is.

(Reply to this)


Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…